Someone made the comment: “I understand this is a subject with different opinions” and asked for comments.
“Yes Paul was talking about and in the old testament we have the sample of king Saul”.
“Yes a believer can loose their salvation because we have an enemy the devil who want us to fall and fall.
“… Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour”(1peter 5:8)”
“We think of men like Peter, for example, who denied Christ. But the fact that he was restored shows that not every professing believer who falls has fallen past the point of no return. At this point, we should distinguish a serious and radical fall from a total and final fall.
Many believers have held that yes, true Christians can lose their salvation because there are several New Testament texts that seem to indicate that this can happen. I’m thinking, for example, of Paul’s words in 1 Timothy 1:18–20: Examples Hymaneus, Alexander and Judas Iscariot………….”
”Thanks for citing these examples my brother. So with these can we say it is possible to fall beyond repair? I am also thinking in the line of Hebrews 10:29 I also recall Hebrews 3:12 which is directed at the ‘brethren’”
“The Lord Jesus, the eternal Son of the eternal God, Who knows all things said, Matt 24:35 “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” The Lord Jesus also said in John 10:27-28 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: v28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man (“man” not in the original Greek) pluck them out of my hand.” Then some people, based on certain verses, say that you can lose your salvation. So there is a seeming contradiction in GOD’s WORD?!? The questions therefore are: Can there be contradictions in God’s Word the Bible? God inspired it all (2Tim 3:16-17) and the Holy Spirit inspired the men to write it (2Peter 1:20-21). So there cannot be contradictions in God’s Word. Therefore if the Lord Jesus’ words differ from my understanding of other Scriptures who is wrong? Can the Lord Jesus be wrong? Or is it that my understanding of certain verses could be wrong? One point that I have recently said is that context is very important for the proper understanding of the Bible. Take a text out of context and it becomes a pretext.
Another issue is the Lord Jesus (see Matthew 7:22-23) and the apostles (see 1John in particular) recognised that there were those who professed to be Christians but did not possess eternal life and so were never saved in the first place. That must be taken into account with certain Scriptures e.g. Hebrews 10:28-29. A further consideration is that as the Lord Jesus does the saving, and not me, can He (God) fail? A good book that gives help with the difficult, supposedly lose your salvation, verses is, “Once In Christ, In Christ Forever” by William MacDonald. Also there is “Once Saved, Always Saved” by R T Kendall and “Assurance – How to know you are a Christian” by J C Ryle. Also how could Paul confidently say while in prison (Eph 3:1, 4:1) to all the believers miles away at the Ephesus church in 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has (past tence) blessed us (not me) with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:” if you cannot know whether you are saved or not? How can you rejoice if you do not know whether at the last minute of your life you could be lost?
“Sincerely speaking and I want to believe which is the GOSPEL truth, a believer may lose his/her salvation-Ps51:10-12 in addition to other examples in the NT given already. The doctrine of once saved is saved forever is not for the children of LIGHT. why is it written in the scripture “handle your salvation with trembling hands…” may GOD uphold us to the end IJN Amen SHALOM”
“I agree Sir. Once saved, forever saved messages make me question the place of ‘follow peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord’ Hebrews 12:14. Would love if anyone holding this doctrine would shed more light on it.”
“CAN A BELIEVER LOSE HIS/HER SALVATION?
Firstly, we need to know what makes a man a believer.
(KJV)Romans 10:9-10 says; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
A believer gains salvation by confessing with his mouth the Lord Jesus and can lose his salvation by confessing with his mouth that Jesus is no longer his Lord.
(KJV) Matthew 12:37 says; For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. The mouth a man uses to confess that Jesus is his personal Lord can also be used to confess that Jesus is no longer his personal Lord and saviour.
Secondly, A believer can lose his salvation by making his faith in God to start declining. (KJV) Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: If the faith that brought salvation to a man is not well nurtured, it can die because faith is a seed. Once a man stops nurturing his faith in God by God’s Word, then he can lose his salvation because faith comes by hearing and by hearing the Word of God. Once personal relationship with God and Congregational fellowship with God is no longer appealing to a believer, then he would definitely lose his salvation.”
“This is so true, anyone who denounces the faith or deliberately walks away having tasted Christ cannot be helped, the bible confirms this in Hebrews 6:4-6.”
“What would you say though of some who believe that according to Jesus’s words concerning the Father in John 6:39 that “…that of all He has given me I should loose nothing”? Also in vs 40”
“Very true there will always be a “son of perdition” the truth is that it is all a matter of choice.”
“It is quite amazing that we sinners who became believers in Christ are a gift of God the Father to the Son. I agree with you that the words of the Lord Jesus “that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing,” shows that our salvation is eternally secure. Also that “and none of them is lost, but the son of (i.e. characterised by) perdition (eternal and spiritual loss/ruin)” i.e. Judas, (John 17:12) shows that he was never saved in the first place. The Lord Jesus reveals that while Judas was among the disciples he was never part of those who were the gift of the Father to the Son. No person’s will is stronger than the God’s and the Lord Jesus’ will. Judas was never a believer at all. He manifested his lost condition by betraying the Lord. The other disciples ran away or denied the Lord but did not betray Him.”
“Hebrews 12:14 “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” What is the holiness referred to here? In the New Testament holiness is used in three different aspects concerning believers.
1. First is that there is positional holiness which the believer receives at the moment of faith. See 1 Cor. 1:2 & 6:11. Due to the believer’s union with Christ he is sanctified/holy forever. For our standing before (or relationship to) God is concerned Christ is our holiness.
2. There is a practical sanctification (1 Thess. 4:3; 5:23). We should daily separate ourselves from every form of evil in a progressive holiness.
3. Lastly there is complete or perfect holiness when a believer goes to heaven (Phil 3:21). Then they are forever free from sin because the old sinful flesh is removed. The believers state (or fellowship with God) is perfectly the same as his standing (or relationship to God).
Now which holiness are we to pursue? We do not strive after positional holiness because God immediately makes us that when we are born again. We do not strive after the perfect holiness in heaven as that will be ours when we arrive there and see Christ. So that only leaves our practical or progressive holiness through sanctification which involves our continual obedience to God. We must cultivate this holiness continually. The fact that we must follow it, proves that we do not fully arrive at it in this life. In a practical sense we will not see the Lord without practical holiness/sanctification.”
“Where in the Bible, and do give chapter and verse, does God tell us what sins a believer has to commit to lose their salvation? Please note that the “unpardonable sin” of Matt 12:22-32 and Mark 3:22-30 was committed by the unbelieving Pharisees and scribes.”
“The issue here is not the giver of the gift; God we know, is perfect and will do whatever He says He will do but the receiver; humans who have the freewill to decide and choose for themselves as we learn from Deuteronomy 30:19 (I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:) God will in no way, shape or form be blamed for what we do with our freewill as we see in Adam and Eve.”
“Can children ever stop being the children of their parents? If, in a family situation, there was, sadly, a bad fallout and one of the children disowned their parents and said that they were no longer their child and did not want to be known as their child, would that stop them from being their child? Obviously not and God’s Word says the same thing about believers being the children of God.
1John 3:9 “Whoever has been born of God does not (Greek habitually, continually) sin, FOR HIS SEED REMAINS IN HIM; and he cannot (Greek habitually, continually) sin, because he has been born of God.” If a believer can be lost how can the Holy Spirit inspire John to say “His (God’s) seed (of eternal life) remains in him … he is born of God”? God says that eternal life remains in the believer.
The apostle John spoke with great assurance to the children of God.
1John 3:2 “Beloved, NOW ARE WE THE CHILDREN OF GOD; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but WE KNOW that WHEN HE IS REVEALED, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM, FOR WE SHALL SEE HIM AS HE IS.” That is the language of complete and absolute confidence about the believer’s eternal future. How could John say that if he had any doubt that he might one day not be saved? And how could he know whether he might even die on that day of being unsaved? If that possibility was true that would take away all assurance and he would not be able to write the above nor confidently state other of God’s promises.’
Before looking at the Hebrews c3-4 passage I will ask a couple of questions.
What is grace? You no doubt are aware of: Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, v9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.” So we are saved by grace … not of works …”. So grace is totally undeserved favour.
This is confirmed in Romans 11:6 “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” Here the Holy Spirit, through Paul, says that grace cannot in any way be mixed with works. If a person is saved by grace (i.e. undeserved favour) then works cannot be involved because if works were involved then grace would be no more grace. If a person is saved in any way through works done by themselves (i.e. personal merit), including them doing the clinging on or being kept by their persistent believing, then salvation is not by grace. If a person is saved by works, that is something that has personal merit in it, then they are not saved by grace. Consequently grace excludes, in every believer, every single, great or small, personal thought or work, both before and after salvation.
Another verse of confirmation is: Romans 5:20 “Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, v21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
As God is infinite (Psalm 145:3; 147:5; Revelation 4:8 etc) therefore His grace is infinite whereas, while our sins are immense, they can be counted by God and so have a limit. So God says that where sin reached its high water mark God’s grace has greatly over flooded it. Also “sin reigned (i.e. absolutely sovereignly) in death” in the unbelievers’ lives. However grace reigns (also absolutely sovereignly) to eternal life, which is both here as a possession, and in eternity in its fulness. Grace is made available in righteousness and so is in full harmony with God’s righteous character and not at the expense of it.
The other question is what the difference between root and fruit? The root brings fruit but the fruit does not change the root. As we know the root of salvation, with the receiving of eternal life, is faith in Christ alone. Salvation, including eternal life, produces a change in the life e.g. 1John 2:3-6. One of the fruits of that is continuing in the things of God even, at times, when circumstances go against you.
1John 2:24-25 “Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. v25 And this is the promise that He has promised us–eternal life.”
“Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning.” There is a safeguard for genuine believers against false teachers. It is to “let that abide (remain) in you which you heard from the beginning” which refers to the truth the apostles gave about the Lord Jesus and salvation from the first day of their salvation, which for us is, as we know, the Word of God.
“If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.”
So if the truth abides (remains) in them, that is by continuing to believe those truths they have already learned there would be an consequence on them. The consequence was that they would remain in a living relationship with God. Abiding permanently in the Son means that we also continue in the knowledge and fellowship of the Father.
v25 “And this is the promise that He has promised us–eternal life.” When we abide in the Christian doctrine, we are giving evidence of the reality of, our faith. God then says that the reality of continuing in the Son is not a temporary abiding. It is the fulfilment of a Divine promise and that promise is eternal life. It also underlines the undeniable fact that without the Son there is no eternal life.
Colossians 1:23 “if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.”
Here the apostle Paul adds one of those “if” passages which can be very confusing and disturbing to believers. The verse seemingly teaches that our continued salvation depends on us continuing in the faith. If so, how can this verse be reconciled with other Bible verses e.g. John 10:28-29 (previously mentioned) which states that none of Christ’s sheep can ever perish?
God’s Word not only teaches the blessedness of eternal security but also, as mentioned above, the consequence or quality of true faith which is permanence, in a genuine believer in Christ, i.e. who will continue in God’s things to life’s end. Continuance in God’s things is a proof of faith’s reality. Of course there is always the danger of backsliding, but a Christian falls only to rise again (Proverbs 24:16 “For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again.”). He does not forsake or reject the faith in Christ.
Then why has the Holy Spirit inspired the apostles to write these “if” passages in God’s Word? These have been added to challenge the reality of all those who profess faith in Christ. Sadly not everyone who professes faith in Christ as Saviour possesses eternal life because their faith was/is not genuine. The aim of all such teaching is to encourage those with genuine faith and to awaken those who are perhaps self-confident but only professors of faith in Christ. So the apostle is exhorting the Colossians not to be moved away from the hope that goes with the gospel. They should continue with and be grounded in the truths of the Christian faith.
To be continued (17.6.20)